Seeking help with Leeks

Sweet Tatorman's picture

I've been growing Leeks for years and think I have the basics down fine. One thing that I am hoping someone can help me with is seed saving and seed life extension [Serinde? I know you take them seriously in your area]. I save seed and alternate between two varieties to avoid any crossing even though leeks are mostly self pollinators. Like many alliums, leeks are biennials so I leave 6-10 undug the following Spring for seed production while growing the opposite variety for the current year. Last year the seed harvested germination tested a 0%. I froze the seed for a few weeks and retested and got the same result. I have no idea why. Seeing that I could not maintain my usual rotation I froze the seed I had left of the current years variety for use this year. When I germ tested that seed originally it ran at around 20%. When tested before using this Spring it tested at 0%. I was forced to actually buy seed. Two questions for those that can help. I know that alliums typically have short seed life but are there tricks to extend it? When saving seed, my saved seed typically germ tests at only 20-30% but I have seen purchased seed that claimed 70-80%. Am I likely doing something wrong with my technique? Thanks for any and all help with this.

Blueberry's picture

Gibberellic Acid is your friend. Have used in the past on seed with good luck. Will try and post some links with good info one is a link to a pdf which I am having trouble linking got it to work. On a side note good luck finding zipper pea seed!!. http://www.gardenfundamentals.com/ga3-gibberellic-acid-speeds-up-seed-ge... https://www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html http://uob.edu.ly/assets/uploads/pagedownloads/90593-6-13.pdf

Sweet Tatorman's picture

Mr B you certainly have given me much to chew on. A link embedded in the first link you provided led me to the pdf resource that I think you intended; "Seed Germination Theory and Practice" by Norman Deno which I have downloaded. At 7MB and 248 pages it will take awhile to fully digest. I have no previous experience using GA but it looks like something I should add to my toolkit. To that end I ordered some yesterday which likely will be a lifetime supply. I paid $10 for 10 grams which is cheap considering how sparingly the stuff is used. I did note that on page 91 of the Deno book that he says that of the Allium species he tested they were not responsive to GA but there is no indication that he tested GA on leeks and furthermore he makes a point of noting elsewhere that even within a genus there is much variability in conditions for germination. I will give it a try.
Regarding your comment on zipper pea seed, I fear I know what you are alluding to. Twice in the past 10-15 years they were nowhere to be found. That would seem to suggest that there must be very few growers of them for seed so a crop failure can really impact the supply. Last time it happened, ~5 years or so ago, I was so traumatized by the lack of Zipper Creams that I have ever since purchased enough seed for the year ahead in case of a lack of supply. I should be good for this year.

Blueberry's picture

Some seeds need to go in the front door and out the back door of a bird. Allspice is one now that I have figured out how to keep it alive in North Florida working on the seed. There is a place in Homesteads that sell plants. They appear to be young plants and not cuttings so somebody can make the seed grow without the bird. GA did not work for me. Citrus seeds do much better if planted with pulp from the fruit.

Serinde's picture

This is how gardeners who save their own seed the UK have been described, so welcome to the top flight, Tatorman! As you are knowledgeable about seed production, you'll know that the enemies of resting seeds are moisture and temperature, and that most seeds need to be kept dry and cool.

You know that alliums aren't self pollinating, so having 6-10 plants was exactly the right thing to do. You have pollinators, or you wouldn't have seed at all. Do you harvest the flower as soon as you see the black seeds? Then tie a paper bag over the heads, and then suspend the flowerhead upside down somewhere with a lot of air circulation until the seed fall naturally into the bag. I make sure the seed I keep is clean -- no chaff or critters -- and I keep it in little paper bags (I have a collection mostly from the butchers, who are old-fashioned enough to still use them to sell produce). Labelled and dated, obviously. I never freeze seed; keeping them in an old medicine cabinet now hung inside the garage is usually enough (cool, dry and sliding doors keep out the mice).

Sometimes a batch of seed will be empty -- no germ -- cut a few open to see if this is the case. The other thing about alliums is that they would naturally let their seed fall to the ground. Perhaps try an experiment this year: harvest one batch for seed as you would normally do; let the others fall onto the ground where you want them to grow next year (or simulate this by making up a seed tray, perhaps with modules, and sow at least two per module; keep the whole thing in a cold frame?). Might this be an interesting experiment? Or perhaps you live somewhere with too many days of frost (or feet of snow!).

I also try to avoid F1 hybrids because you can't guarantee either the vigour or result of any saved seed. Some seed is much easier than others to save (peas and beans are a dawdle, in my experience). Buying seed isn't a defeat, it's learning.

Sweet Tatorman's picture

Serinde, thank you for the input. It sounds like our methods on harvesting leek seed are fairly similar and where differing not likely of consequence. I for example use a pillow case rather than paper bag when hanging upside down to dry. I am wondering if perhaps I cut them too early last year rather than waiting until much of the seed had fallen from the individual seed husks and thus being lost. This would be a possibility for experimentation this year.
Just rambling now. It interests me that we can both grow leeks despite radically different climates. Here they do most of there growing in the Winter even though they get planted as seedlings in the Summer. Usually I plant them in the area from which I have harvested the white potatoes. I've never had any success with direct seeding of leeks. They really don't grow much in the heat of the Summer and seem to concentrate on just staying alive. It is not uncommon for them to be no larger in diameter than the lead of a wooden pencil at 4 months from germination. Only when it starts to cool in the Fall do they get on with the business of growing. I would surmise that in your climate the growing happens in the Summertime since you don't have much in the way of sun in the Winter.

Serinde's picture

Good idea that pillowcase. I'll remember that. Getting the timing for harvesting seed can be tricky, that's certainly true. I guess if you can see the little black seeds and the covering is all transparent, go for it?

We start leeks off in the early spring and plant them out once threat of frost gone -- 2 week in May or thereby. I've planted out later... (oops). They then grow, hopefully like weeds, until well into September, when they'll have put on as much girth as they are probably going to. They do need watering daily when they first go into their pockets -- May is usually quite a dry month -- and any other time it's really dry for more than a fortnight, otherwise they'll bolt. They will stand all winter here, untroubled seemingly by rain and gales, and we still have a few stragglers, which are now only fit for soup, of course. lol.

Sweet Tatorman's picture

The main advantage I see of the pillowcase vs paper sack other than possibly better air circulation is that the initial threshing can be done in the pillow case. Beating a paper sack with a stick seems to be a questionable idea.

Serinde's picture

I admit that taking a stick to a paper bag would probably result in disappointment! But I'm also lazy, so I just take the end of the stalk, which is sticking out of the bag, and give it a couple of vigorous shakes which seems to do the trick. Almost anything for a quiet life, me. I'd also guess that you have many more seed heads to deal with than I usually bother to keep. Suspect that'll change as we go forward.

ClareBroommaker's picture

Here is a link to a tool to use Deno's publication. https://tomclothier.hort.net/page15.html

In addition, if you backtrack to the home page, https://tomclothier.hort.net , you will find a seed germination database. At one time I thought that Tom Clothier had joined efforts with Asle Serigstad to produce this database, but I can't find Asle mentioned on the site at all, and he seems to be missing from the internet all together. The database has a number of foodplants. Just in the annuals section on the page that covers genus names A-D, I see at least 23 of them.
ETA: Sorry that I keep misplacing my posts.

Sweet Tatorman's picture

Thanks for the pointer to this guy's website. I'm surprised that it is not in my own collection of links. Lots of good stuff there.

David Trammel's picture

I've been reading thru it a bit, looks very informative. Thanks.