GW Coronavirus Thread - Ongoing Discussions and Info

David Trammel's picture

Given the concern around the Coronavirus outbreak ongoing in China and with its spread beyond their borders, I thought I would provide a place for discussions and information. Feel free to post here.


Good primer on basic information here: Post Prosperity dot com. Check the comments for more info.
(Note: about half way down there's a ad which will darken the page. Just scroll past to get back to the article.)

At this moment, I have very little worries, even living in a large city. Until I see a case here in St Louis, I'm going to go about my life as I normally would.

I do expect to see a first wave of panic buying. N95 masks, seem to be selling out online. Haven't looked at Home Depot yet. I still have 6 unopened boxes of them from the early 2000 SARs outbreak. I will continue to keep my eyes on the news though.

mountainmoma's picture

I have where there is no doctor on my shelf also, next to the vintage red cross home nursing books. I own an Anthroposophical Childrens Health book which is good for how to treat illnesses, but it is now on long term loan to my offspring for use with the grandkids

mountainmoma's picture

I have lyme disease, late stage, and a few years found out about the Buhner protocol of herbs to treat. ( Stephen Harrod Buhner) Now, I have nothing against antibiotics, and took them for many years, and they did alot of good. But, I was stuck and still not all the way well. His herbal protocol has had great effects, I am still on it, as I had to stop too early, I just restarted last month ( and finally this week am starting to feel better, not done, but it is improving as I saw before I had to prematurely stop) The point of my saying this is that I realy trust this herbalist and author. He is well known and respected in the herbalist community. So much so, that many, many practictioners have patients follow his protocols and many, many herbal makers and sellers sell sets of tinctures and capsules based on his recommendations ( he does not sell herbs himself).

I have his Herbal AntiVirals book and it is very good. ( as well as his Treating Lyme Disease book, get the second edition of the lyme book, it is much changed and improved from the first edition) So, the Herbal Antiviral book has alot of other good information, obiously, much more than his short facebook post, so a worthwhile book, but still, at least his facebook post has the basics

He was generous enough to put his protocol for Corona Virus on his facebook page :

" .... Stephen Buhner
January 23 at 10:37 AM ·

Corona virus treatment. I have an analysis of how corona viruses infect tissues, what tissues they infect, and the herbs that are useful to interrupt that process, as well as the herbs useful to shut down the cytokine cascade they create on pages 52-55 of Herbal Antivirals. It is useful reading in that it can inform treatment from a knowledgeable place (there are also some suggestions, not often used by medical professionals, for specific pharmaceuticals that have been found to be useful). Here is a sample protocol. Please note it is rather more extensive than the ones i normally suggest, this is because the particular corona virus that is now spreading world wide is exceptionally potent in its impacts. Again, this is only a suggested protocol, but all the herbs are specific in one way or another for this virus. A number of the herbs are strongly antiviral for corona viruses. In general, I would only begin using these formulations IF there is good reason to believe that the virus is entering your area. The formulations are preventative as well as specific for acute infections, the only alteration is the dosage. Three tincture formulations and one tea.

Core tincture formulation: Baikal skullcap (3 parts), japanese knotweed root (2 parts), kudzu (2 parts), licorice (1 part), decocted elder leaf tincture (1 part). Note, the berry will do i guess but it is about 1/3 as effective as the decocted leaf (which no one sells, you have to make it yourself). Dosage: 1 tsp 3x day, 6x if active infection.

Immune system, cellular protection, cytokine interruption tincture formulation, supportive for core tincture activity: Cordyceps (3 parts), Dong Quai (2 parts), rhodiola (1 part), astragalus (1 part). Dosage: same as above.

Cellular protection, cytokine interruption, spleen/lymph support tincture formulation: Dan Shen (3 parts), red root (2 parts), cinnamon (1 part). same dosage as above.

With active infection: very strong boneset tea, to 6x day.

I have used this with other corona virus infections, including SARS, it works well. ..."

Many of these herbs overlap with what I am already taking for Lyme, so I am actually pretty well protected. But, my daughter is at University and has just developed some kind of bad Lung or asthma thing, so she is vulnerable. I bought, from one of the herbal sellers, a 2 week set of tinctures for this Corona Virus protocol. She still thinks this is all too much fuss for nothing, but I have these ready to send to her once this epidemic worsens, or within the next few weeks. For those out of the USA he mentions a place in the UK and one in Canada for those that want a done set of herbs.

If you have a very big family, make them yourself. But, do note, that some of the herbs are grown in .... China. So, dont wait too long. Japanese knotweed, of course, grows as an invasive now in many places, including the southern part of the USA, so that Kudzu, licorice, and elder certainly can be found ! Cordeceps and red root are also domestic. ( I already take cordeceps, licorice, japanese knotweed, dan shen. I have elderberry extract here, so not perfect but very protective in the overlap. I bought some dried boneset for tea and need to buy some kudzu )

ClareBroommaker's picture

First, thanks for all the good info you are bring her today, mountainmoma.

Since you have read and follow Buhner I wonder if you might help me with this. I thought I read a long time ago that elderberry juice can actually _cause_ a cytokine storm in the case of some viral infections. Does that ring a bell for you? I truly might be totally remembering this wrong. But if it does, would you happen to know for what viral illnesses it would be bad to use elderberry? I had been a tad worried about my plan to use elderberry, but feel better seeing the leaf tincture included above.

mountainmoma's picture

nope, he gives elderberry the all clear. He does say that a tincture of elder leaf is superior to the berry syrup, but you would need to make it yourself as no one sells it. SO, he says if you cant get elder leaf tincture to use the elderberry syrup. There are no warnings or issues, no causing of cytocine storms. He does talk about cytocine storms and a few of the herbs in the protocol listed above calm that down. Same for lyme, the cytocine storm gives us the "die off" effects when we treat, so part of the Lyme protocol has a few herbs to calm them down.

I just now did a re-read the corona virus, influenza virus sections and the Materia Medica section on Elder to double check for you. And, nope, no mentions are problems with it contributing to cytocine storms.

I have heard this "herban" legend before. I think it comes up because people think in a simpified, reductionist way, ie., they think immune system over-response causes cytocine storm, so anything that helps your immune system would contribute to cytocine storm. Which is not the way to think about it first. and second, elder is specifically antiviral, not a general immune system support.

If you do the FB thing, they have been discussing elderberry for this virus.

ClareBroommaker's picture

"Herban" legend-- ha-ha, that's funny. Thanks for looking that up for me (us!).

mountainmoma's picture

While not in the context of elder, Buhner uses that Herban legand term, plus all kinds of digs about taxonomists in his writing....

David Trammel's picture

Sorry everyone, was away for a long week dealing with family issues. Haven't been able to keep up here, will try and get everything that I missed done in a few days.


Now having said that, I will say I have to disagree with Greer, I get the sense this corona virus is going to be a lot worse than the seasonal flu. I think he is feeling a bit gun shy having miscalled the Ebola outbreak of a few years back.

Health wise, we are in a heavy flu outbreak anyway, add to that a virus which appears to have nearly 20x the fatality rate, and that about 20% of the people need hospital intervention with ICU and ventilator support, I don't believe our hospitals will be able to handle the sick.

That's going to force many to self treat, which few can do any more.

As bad as the health side of things are, the economic issues of supply change disruption and businesses temporally closing due to no or low work, is going to hit people in America and the EU hard. A large portion of Americans can't afford a $400 car repair, let alone being out of work for 2-3 weeks.

Nor will they be able to self quarantine, either because they can't afford to be off work, or don't have any food put away to do it.

On top of that, I don't have much confidence the federal nor state governments have a clue on how to fight a major health crisis. Democrat or Republican.

Greer has spoken about the Long Descent being a stair step of descents, I have a feeling this one is going to be a large one.

Thanks mountainmoma for alerting me to the work of Stephen Buhner. Today he has published his corona virus protocol.
I know you can buy this kit in the US, as mentioned in various of his facebook posts, no idea if it is possible to get it in/into other countries. Still, here it is , and maybe some of us can get our hands on some of these herbs.

mountainmoma's picture

This is new in that he gives a great discussion of the Virus. He published the protocol just on his facebook page in January. But in todays longer, complete write up he has made a change, he now says he prefers to use a chinese formulation, Shuanghuanglian formulation, instead of the Boneset he mentioned before. The rest of the herbs in the protocol remaining the same.

I, of course, just received my pound of dried boneset on friday.

mountainmoma's picture

I bought a store bought group of tinctures late jan/early feb, before the prices went up, this is using his original protocol with boneset tea recomendation. This I was finally able to hand this off today to my youngest, who is in one of our corona viral hot spots on the west coast at a university. 2 sets, which covers 16 days. This offspring of mine has a new diagnosis of Asthma, and is currently told by a doctor to use inhalers every 4 hours. So immune system is down, lungs in bad shape. ANy $$ is irrelevant to the health risk for that one !

( since they also had a run on stores locally, I also handed off the 10 pound bag of rice I bought the other week. A heavy item to put in ones overnight bag on transit ! And hand sanitizer and disposable gloves. And ticntures in the backpack. (I have more rice. ))

After a while, I relented and bought the raw herbs to make enough tinctures for the rest of us, and there are 5 of us. I should almost be able to do it, the hard part will be having enough cordyceps. So, I just ordered a "tincture" but it is expensive and not enough for all the batches. Cordyceps, being a mushroom, cannot just be tinctured like the herbs, it has to be decocted ( basically, cooked in water) first, then have alcohol added in a second step. California does not allow the sale of 95% alcohol, so I cant do it myself. Of course, it can be taken seperately in capsules, and I have some empty capsules. But, for a few people I will give this to, I need simplification, so bought the tincture. A few others of us will take capsules seperate. But, I may run out of the cordyceps dry powder itself ! Very frustrating, but I dont blame everyone for buying it. The thing is, I have to take ALOT of it right now to treat my lyme disease, so, hopefully more will come available. What I will do is not give away my cordyceps powder to local family until they absolutely need it, I mean, they may not get sick in the near future. There is alot of overlap in his corona virus recomends and what I already take, so I guess that is nice in terms of some protection for me. As long as I can get more in a few months !

So, it will take a month to have this all done. Since I already have the boneset, I may not bother with the new change in protocol.... excepting the young asthmatic who I think needs every boost there is.

ClareBroommaker's picture

Our household has

1) Scutellaria tea, loose, but no tincture. For what the tea is worth, my scutellaria is recommended in four of his categories.

2) Sambucus eldeberry juice, fairly concentrated (but not the leaf), and that is in two categories.

3) cinnamon (powdered) contributing to one category.

4) olive oil, one category,

5) Polygonum , three categories.

6) zinc, (as zinc gluconate lozenges sold for cold virus)

This still leaves us three categories with no coverage. Think I might gather everything into a box in the kitchen so we'll no where it all is.

mountainmoma's picture

I have olive trees, do you want me to send some leaf ?

ClareBroommaker's picture

I don't think there is any PM set up here, but you can reach me through "wicketcity" at that word that a rodeo bronco rider might call out when the gate opens. The word that isn't quite "yeehaw." Got that? We can make an arrangement.

By the way, like your daughter, my spouse has difficult asthma, lifelong. His age is in that most hard hit range, too.

What do you do with the olive leaves, mountainmoma? Tea? Or something else? I have olive leaves, also access to elder leaves. How would I make them into something useful for taking as a herbal preparation? I am still slowly getting my head around words like 'tincture' and 'decoction' but keen to learn. I have ordered Buhner's Anitviral book which is on its way.
Btw, zinc is absorbed most readily through the skin according to my doctor, so Clare, if you can get some zinc-based sunscreen you can rub it on your skin for zinc immune system support. I make my own zinc sunscreen and apply it most days and have good high zinc levels.

mountainmoma's picture

--- IMPORTANT EDIT ---- It turns out that raw ELDER LEAF makes some people throw up ! SO, do not just tincture it ! I had no idea, as most things you just tincture, and I have no elder on my property and had never used it before. The new Buhner document on treating COVD-19 tells you how to deal with elder leaf, it is towards the bottom, basically you have to decoct it first ( cook in water) to deactivate the stuff that causes some to vomit, then you add alcohol to make shelf stable, go read up on it, and many people do fine with a raw elderleaf tincture, he uses it that way all the time. But since I am making some to give away, I dont want to take that chance.

I have never used olive leaves, but they are used herbally, either a decoction ( tea) or a tincture ( shelf stable, more concentrated, usually in alcohol). I am not using them for this outbreak as there are other stronger herbs to use against it, and the young asthmatic is not the only one of us with weak lungs.

I wish I had elder leaves ! Elder leaves are much more potent a medicine than the elder berries. If I had some, I would tincture them in alcohol to add to the medicine I will need against this virus.
how to use is too long for my time this morning. Basically, and usually, the "cottage" home way is to fill a jar twice, once with relatively loose plant matter, and then with alcohol. Then there is different ways, some people dont use fresh plant matter, I do with good results. Some use precise amounts of water/alcohol by type of plant, I just use vodka, which is about half and half. Buhner mentions weighing dry plant matter and using 1 part dry by ounce weight to 5 parts vodka by liquid ounce, for example.

If I was to tincture fresh elder leaves, I would roughly chop or shred, put in my jar without packing down, add vodka to the same level. But not having access, I have never tincture elder leaves. I have tincture fresh black walnut leaves in this way and it worked well

So, latest news, this afternoon we discover that a man travelled from Iran to my home town of Launceston on Saturday, via Melbourne, and brought coronavirus with him. He is not so much the worry, as he has self-quarantined and is now at the hospital (400m from my front door), but the 100 or so people who travelled with him on the plane are still wandering the streets as far as I know.. ah well, it's here now and que sera, sera..
Meanwhile, mountainmoma, I have pretty much got my head around how to make elder leaf tincture as per Buhner's instructions in the pdf, will give that a go in the next couple of days, would love any extra hints and tips if you have any. Would I do the same with the olive leaf?

mountainmoma's picture

my go to thing to do is to "fill the jar twice" with fresh garden stuff, so put the leaves in a jar lossely and fill with enough alcohol, the kind for drinking, to cover. Around here this is usually 80proof, so 40% alcohol. Some herbalists like to use a higher alcohol for fresh, but I dont have access to that and I have never had a problem

mountainmoma's picture

a couple recipes, which we likely all know, but you know…. if you happen to have aloe around for sunburn treatment

Specifically, Miryam Wahrman, a biology professor at William Paterson University who wrote “The Hand Book: Surviving in a Germ-Filled World,” told Insider a recipe with 70% alcohol should be nine parts alcohol to one part aloe vera. A recipe with 99% alcohol could be three parts alcohol to two parts aloe vera.
OregonLive recommends a two-to-one ratio of 91% isopropyl alcohol to aloe vera. You can also add eight to 10 drops of scented oil if you want to smell nice.


To make your own disinfecting wipes, simply take a paper towel or tissue, dab it in rubbing alcohol (or any type of solution that is at least 60% alcohol), and wipe down whatever surface you’d like to clean.
Even before the coronavirus outbreak, Wahrman did this to her phone daily. She also does it to remote controls when traveling.
After cleaning her phone with an alcohol-moistened tissue, “it looks nice and squeaky clean,” she said, adding, “And I know most of the germs I’ve picked up along the way have been killed and somewhat removed.”

regular 60% or stronger rubbing alcohol will kill the germs to clean with or on skin

hydrogen peroxide will kill the germs to clean with, and doesnt have the toxic fumes of bleach, some of us are allergic to chlorine. Do not dilute the hydrogen peroxide. I use dollar store single use cotton make-up pads ( or whatever their called, like you use to take off finger nail polish. 100 for a dollar) with it to wipe doorknob, bathroom faucet handle, light switch, etc… I use rags/sponge for outside and pour into the bowl to soak to clean toilets.

You dont need to use cotton or paper towels, you can use washable rags. The rag is soaking wet with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide, it doesnt have any germs surviving on it like that ! Dedicate a bucket or container to toss them in after use until you collect for a few days to put in the washing machine.

Dairies and home beer/wine makers know about idophor to kill germs by soaking items that are in funny shapes so you cant get inside easily to scrub. cold water.

alice's picture

Thanks for posting, those are all good tips for hygiene.

I got this recipe for 1 cup of 70 % rubbing alcohol plus 1 tsp glycerin as a humectant/moisturizer to make a hand sanitizer liquid. I worked out that dropper caps in a 50 ml glass bottle work to dispense the liquid for a handy size lower-plastic option.

I heard a gastro medic was saying he's expecting rates of food-bourne illness to drop as people here in the UK do seem to be learning about washing their hands properly before eating etc, if it's not inappropriate to brightside a bit.

ClareBroommaker's picture

When I was at my neighbor's house today, she had just burned an herb, Peganum harmala, which she had brought back from her December visit to Iraq. She says the smoke is supposed to help prevent respiratory diseases and also ward off the evil eye, and give householders "positive energy". For a moment she seemed to struggle to say something more about what she meant by positive energy, but just decided to leave it at that. She offered me some to take home, but I declined telling her I wanted to look it up first. She told me two stores where locally I could probably buy it. (Baghdad Market or Jay International, both on Grand Ave for the several of us from St Louis, Missouri who read this forum.) However, I imagine a store which sells foods and items anywhere from Morocco & Spain to Bangladesh & Mongolia might have this herb. It (according to wikipedia) grows and has medicinal uses across that swath of the globe. Wikipedia shows a photo of it bagged up as any other herb by the Sadaf Company, which I think is a pretty big wholesaler.

When I looked at the herb she had in a tin, it reminded me of Gunpowder tea. And in fact, it sounds like it might have a similar tendency to expand with heat. She said the way to burn it is in an old kitchen pan that you won't use for other things. Put the herb in dry and shake the pan over the heat, keeping the herb sliding about in the pan until you hear it making little *pop*ping, crackling sounds.

My friend also had a lump of what looked like a resin-based incense in that tin, but I forgot to ask her what it was. I would not be surprised if she sometimes burns the fragrant incense to cover up the smell of the Peganum harmala, which carries (in my opinion) a mildly unpleasant smell.

I'm pretty sure now --that I know the smell-- that I've been in another Iraqi American household where this herb has been burned, often. And I will say that the kids in that household get over colds remarkably fast.

alice's picture

One of the difficulties with novel infections in a population is that the demographics of infection mean that it's really hard for the health services to manage the peak of the disease even when it is mostly the already-poorly who are being badly affected. If the disease is widespread, cases can be doubling day to day and if I understand correctly that means there is likely to be one week when about half of the total cases in the epidemic happen. That means potentially everything in the normal system gets overwhelmed from hospital beds to mortuaries and crematoria. Hospitals can just fill up completely with pneumonia cases and it could be pretty stressful for everyone, not just those most directly affected or bereaved just because of the numbers of people with the severe form of the disease occurring in one week rather than being spread over the whole year.

I think not very many people are prepared for home nursing, I don't have much experience myself apart from nursing my own kids through normal childhood illnesses. I've been reading the home nursing manual that mountainmoma posted a link to in spare minutes. I hope I'm mentally and practically prepared to help my elderly and frail neighbours in the village and vulnerable members of my religious community who might need help if it does really take off in the UK population. At least I know a bit about aseptic technique from my lab studies which could help me with hygienic nursing. Maybe I should ask someone at our church who has relevant professional knowledge to do a couple of evening classes on how members of the general public can prepare to help each other.

Also I think the economic consequences could be rumbling on for some time to come by the look of one of the graphs I saw circulating . I don't know much about economics at all but if that's a correct representation I think a lot of bubbles might have popped and there might be some rearrangements coming up right across the economy. I don't know if it's too much to hope that some of the much-needed relocalization of industry might be implemented. I think about that one from time to time but apart from supporting local businesses with our money whenever possible and encouraging young people to get into 'real work', I don't know there's much I can do about it.

Hi all, how is the coronavirus experience in your neck of the woods? Here in Tasmania we have had six cases, all travel related, plus the spouse of one of the travel cases. Everyone on incoming international flights to Australia will be expected to self-isolate for 14 days as of today. There are to be no public gatherings of more than 500 people as of tomorrow. The schools are still open. I am trying to decide whether to send my daughter to her high school tomorrow. I am leaning towards not. The less people out in the community now the better, and she goes to an alternative school with fairly self-directed curriculum. She could work very well from home.
There have been reports of fights in supermarkets as the panic buying begins. Toilet paper just made it back onto the shelves, but I expect it is gone again now. Aussie supermarkets are rationing rice, pasta, flour, toilet paper, tissues and hand sanitiser to one or two items per person. I have to say, I have never seen rationing in action before. It's a bit sobering.
I think Australia might, possibly might get away with a fairly low case load of the virus if everything is shut down right now. Only 300 cases reported as of today, and 3 deaths, though that is likely a redundant figure by now. Not sure there is the political will or leadership there though.
I have plenty of food and have sent bottles of my favourite respiratory herb pills to all my family. I checked on my elderly neighbour today as I hadn't seen her for a few days, and my daughter and I are reviewing our home nursing skills (well, actually, she is playing D&D with her older siblings via video right now, can't be a responsible home nurse all the time), and we made bread this morning.
How is this situation impacting other green wizards?
Stay well all xx

Things are going relatively well here in Baltimore (for us) though we had our first case in the city today. I've been working remotely since Thursday and my husband has since Friday. Schools are closed here until March 27 at least, so we're all at home. We already had a well-stocked pantry, and Thursday night I doubled (and for some items tripled) our usual weekly food supplies. Lines at the store were quite crazy, but I didn't see much bad behavior. Aldi was out of toilet paper and cleaning supplies. Wegmans was almost out of meat and vitamin C - but no one was purchasing homeopathic remedies, cod liver oil, elderberry extract, etc. That's where we have focused our efforts - on the immunity side of things, including the cell salts JMG recommended. While we are all healthy and practically quarantined, we are planning to work on house projects and getting our garden in.

I am very proud of my neighborhood. They've organized a listserv specifically for coronavirus, have set up Google docs for figuring our childcare, checking on elderly people in the neighborhood, sharing resources. Sometimes this neighborhood is full of petty squabbles about silly things, but nice to see people coming together when it counts. I hope it lasts!

I think there are great possibilities for community building if we approach this in the right way. Sounds like your neighbourhood has it covered! I live in a little street where we all know each other and there are two medical students over the road which might come in handy. I think it would be quite easy to organise street grocery trips, so only one person would be going to the store for four or five households, a bit like those communal food deliveries they were doing in Wuhan..

mountainmoma's picture

I am following Chris Martensons advice to stay home. Dave Trammel is spending alot of virtual time over there too.

I have left the house twice in the past 2 weeks ( once to DMV to renew license last week, in a mask and gloves; the other earlier this week to get some lumber and hay since I had room in the truck. Both these stores are outside basically, no line at register ) so I last hit a grocery store 3 weeks ago. SO, anything about those is just what I hear, and what I hear is everything getting bought out. BTW, I am in the greater San Francisco bay area, California. When I was at the lumber yard, I dropped by my close by offprings house, but we did not hug or be by each other, did a porch exchange, I dropped off hand sanitizer, dry goods, etc.... and I picked up a few novels and 2 handles of vodka --- I ran out ! I thought I had picked up so much too, but I am tincturing alot, so the young folks when out the day before bought some for me.

I now have to make the difficult decision about one of my offspring coming in to visit from college. Likely will both wear masks when in the same room as each other, and my other offspring when comes over will need to wear one also -- for my birthday in a few days, so no eating together. The one visiting and I will need to eat in seperate rooms. This is all a real bummer, but you play the hand you are dealt.

Food here : There is miners lettuce and Malva growing wild in the yard, and fresh oranges ripe on the tree that I pick as I eat, only one lemon though ( crows ate the branch tips off) , and plenty of canned tomatoes, jam, pie fillings and dried fruit and dried greens, butternut squash and onions all from the garden still in the pantry. I had bought some prepared canned items in case I am sick, canned soups, canned fruit. I have dry goods in the pantry, grains legumes. But, I already had to share out some of the dry goods to 2 of my offspring, hopefully the store situation is short term and that will get topped back up later. I have one goat with a kids, so I lock the kid away at night, and steal about 2 cups of fresh milk each morning, I also have a few cans of dried whole milk if I want more. I do not eat meat. I have some cheese in house, and some canned from NZ if that runs out.

Garden: The first potatoes are just having greens hit above ground; garlic is growing well; the new strawberries I put in are all growing well; The kale that overwintered is just about big enough to start stealing a few leaves if I want to; The onion starts need to set out, but I didnt have the energy and now it is raining; I started seeds yesterday, later than I should have ! 2 dozen tomato plants; 12 Italian frying peppers ( these wont get set out until late may early june, but the peppers should have been started earlier); 6 each of kale, chard, brocolli; I had put direct seeds out for garbanzo beans and sugar snap peas, and so far the birds are getting thru the bird netting and getting those garbanzos as the sprout up -- beans and corn are hard here because the large crows want the large protein packed seed. We will see if they find the sugar snaps. I need to do more seed starting and prep work

Medicinals: I have had a large focus on Medicinals. I gathered some fresh Elder leaf from a location on the side of the road a few days ago, I have to drive there, It is just leafing out. SO, I followed Buhners instructions of decocting it, started with 4 oz fresh leaves and 2 quarts water, ended with 2 cups water that I added 2 cups vodka, which is non-ideal, but I cant get higher proof alcohol, puts it a 20%, but when it mixes with the rest, it should be alright. Other tinctures are all over the kitchen counter doing their thing.

I have been low energy due to my underlying health issue, lyme disease, and likely stress, but I am keeping on

Mountainmoma, that sounds quite difficult, working out how to interact with family when you are in such a vulnerable position. How are you keeping, after having been home for so long? Are you finding it hard, or getting a lot done? I guess your basic personality type comes into play here. This is a game that introverts win at.

I decided to keep my daughter out of school, basically let the school know that they'll see her when they see her. But at the same time, my mum drops around, my other daughter comes in and out.. still, we are not isolating for our own health, but for the benefit of the whole community, and I am sure it is better that the 15yo isn't seeing 100 other people every day. Also, the less kids at school, the more distance those who are there can keep from one another.
We are seeing a lot of panic buying in the shops here. Rice and pasta and everything in a jar that can be put on rice and pasta. But there is no shortage of fresh fruit and veg, bread etc. It is problematic in some ways, but at least with all this food on hand people should be able to stay at home more now??

mountainmoma's picture

It is realy not my illness, it is just my age and where I live. You and your area will also have to think about these things in the future. Anyone in my age range, and realy, everyone else too, should be thinking about this in my area ( California, greater San Francisco Bay Area) more so in Seattle or New York. My youngest the college student is the most at risk person in the family, as student has recently developed bad asthma. SO, as much as I am protecting me from student, who is still mixing too much, even more than that, I am setting an example of how we need to be. Hopefully it will get into students head more after this, as hard as it will be. Student is in a remote location until tomorrow, so doesnt know yet both of us will need to use masks due to student not being socially isolated. The other ones are in between, aside from work, my other offspring is not going to gatherings at friends houses and not going out to bars/resteraunts. Well, now you cant go do any of that anyways !

In this area, all schools are closed, elementary high school colleges. All bars are closed, and shows. etc... So we are farther along the infection and isolation curve than your area is. The state government is telling anyone 65yo to not leave the house and isolate. So, I am doing my part, I am not that age yet, but it is a slope to that, so other statistics show more risk for those over 60.

How am I doing ? Well, it is funny as I realy do not go out much normally, but not being able to, well that is a real weird feeling, very surreal. The whole thing. So, I am not anywhere near as productive as I likely should be. Having animals is great, kind of like kids, they keep you on a scheduale that helps pace out the days. Time to milk, time to feed, etc... But, part of the lack of productivity is that I started a new herbal regime in January and it has side effects like low blood pressure and the resulting tiredness, so it is not surprising. to be getting less done than I was before the holidays. Having goals within that, like I said, the animals, getting garden and herbal virus medicine preps going, trying to keep the house running makes the days go very fast. I was trying to get work done fixing the fence, for example, and part of the house, but due to all this craziness is likely postponed.

Mountainmoma, hope all is going well with your youngest at home with you. It is a really tricky situation, and I hear you as my motherly advice to children who aren't living at home isn't necessarily being taken on board, but nothing new there!
Last year my mum had really bad gastro, and as she was a nurse, and my dad an engineer with OCD tendencies, they worked out a system to stop the virus spreading to my dad - my mum wasn't allowed in the kitchen at all, her dishes were washed in a separate washing up bowl, her clothes in a separate wash. My dad wiped the bathroom taps with antibacterial wipes before he used them, and he wiped down all the door knobs and the toilet every time my mum got up out of bed and used them. I dropped off groceries at the door. It was stringent, but it worked!
I hope you can work out a system that you can both live with. I think it's a good thing to have animals to be responsible for in a time like this - it means you have to get outside, and cuddling animals is good for the immune system, all that serotonin and endorphins:) All the best as you soldier on:)

Sweet Tatorman's picture

I would say the impact at sweet tatorland has been fairly limited. I'm not the type who only buys TP once I start on the last roll so no worries there. A few things I can point to. I have/am getting discretionary close contact medical stuff out of the way before this becomes widespread locally. Did my annual dental cleaning and exam last week and will do my eye exam next Tueday. While my State passed the 500 mark earlier today for confirmed cases there are none in my county and only 1 case in 1 county out of the 10 Northmost counties of the State which is where I am located. I did self quarantine for two days last week while awaiting the [negative] test results of a person that was a potential source of a secondhand exposure but that was no change to my usual routine as I often don't go anywhere for two or more days in a row. Yesterday I learned that a friend that I will be meeting up with later in the week for a hike has just learned that a coworker tested positive so I anticipate a larger than normal interpersonal space for that occasion. I anticipate that the CV thing will largely play out as a sociological/economic spectator activity for me.

mountainmoma's picture

--- IMPORTANT ---- It turns out that RAW ELDER LEAF makes some people throw up ! SO, be careful, you may not want to just tincture it ! I had no idea, as most things you just tincture, and I have no elder on my property and had never used it before. The new Buhner document on treating COVD-19 tells you how to deal with elder leaf, it is towards the bottom, basically you have to decoct it first ( cook in water) to deactivate the stuff that causes some to vomit, then you add alcohol to make shelf stable, go read up on it, and many people do fine with a raw elderleaf tincture, he uses it that way all the time. But since I am making some to give away, I dont want to take that chance.

Yes, I got Buhner's anti-viral book from the library and read about that! Stephen Buhner is a hoot, I have never read such an entertaining herb book, even though it is about things like ebola..

Blueberry's picture
alice's picture

There's a pattern here for people to make a DIY home nursing cloth face mask. I know one sewing group are planning to start a production line this afternoon. Might also be a good line for anyone with sewing skills for a home business to sell postal order.

Blueberry's picture

From another place on the internet I hang. That is not me.

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Ha ha, as a Linux user I am thankfully immune to viruses of all descriptions:)

Alice, that looks like an excellent article, and a mask designed by a health professional, nice. I made the decision not to buy any disposable masks because neither me or my daughter are high risk, so i thought I'd leave the masks for those who actually needed them. Still, it is good to know we can whip up some masks at home if we really need them.

alice's picture paper suggests surgical masks soaked in 30 % salt work well -- the filter in the pocket of these home made ones could also be treated that way I would guess. Useful for cutting down viral load in home nursing context maybe if this gets super bad.

mountainmoma's picture

I am on Sage Womans mailing list so received this today. She mentions many things that can be done before, to strengthen your immune system, and after getting ti to help fight it off. WHile some things you can buy, she mentions many things cheap or free, sch as : probiotics in the forms of homemade sour kraut or yogurt ; taking mushroom powders just stirred into applesauce ( much cheaper than tinctures or capsules and just as good); making your own treatments like elderberry syrup, onion syrup and 4 thievs vinegar.

And, thank you blu jay, I am doing better as having my dd here cheers me up, even if I am in more danger of contracting it ( she is getting worse on keeping the mask on, as it is so hard to do constantly, and while she isnt that social, she is at a friends right now (inside) , and saw one earlier today outside, so she is increasing my exposure for sure) I am also feeling better from the company, so it evens out that way. We have done more in the garden, and I eat better when she cooks.

alice's picture

Since the UK has gone from 'contain' to 'delay' strategy cases are not being counted -- the advice if you have mild illness is to stay home and don't block up the NHS phone lines trying to tell them you've got it. So for epidemic nerds I would say for tracking the outbreak in the UK, just follow the official deaths reported from coronavirus, and look at the rate that is doubling for info about how fast it is spreading in the UK and at what point it starts levelling off on a log10 y axis. I would guess this is also the case in most of the second wave countries and of course this decoupling will lead to an overestimate of case fatality rate from now on, don't be alarmed, just because all the mild cases are now not being counted let alone asymptomatic carriers.

In other news since our hamlet has a post box, and I happen to have used most of the stamps in my purse, I have just bought some stamps from the Post Office's online shop so I can send some more letters and encouraging post cards next week to any friends and family who may not be enjoying being at home. I know I'm not the only person who likes getting letters. I can sanitize things before sending in my UV-C drawer sanitizer or in the sun on a sunny day, and pick up with clean gloves to take to the post box, just to ensure I have less chance of accidentally including virus particles if I should happen to get infected =D

Also to other home educators judging by my email inbox I think we need to be ready to talk to all the parents we know who have just found they will also be home educating now schools are out and encouraging them that yes they can do a good job and any tips they might like to consider.

alice's picture

Also I would love to see statistics on how all of a sudden the well off people have decided they don't need to fly quite so much and they can actually cut the amount of carbon they are contributing really quite considerably. A taste of the further future for them I suppose.

alice's picture

Might be way off on this but when I was an undergraduate it was mentioned that companies have been trying for decades to make a vaccine that would protext against the common cold, which if I remember right colds are mainly caused by coronaviruses. No vaccine for SARS1 or MERS either, is that right? So why do people think there will necessarily be a jab for a coronavirus for the first time ever in 'about eighteen months' (seems to be what news outlets tend to say)? Someone with more up to date scientific knowledge please educate me if I have got the wrong end of the stick, it's several years ago now since my undergraduate days. May be related to the breakthrough in developing influenza jabs?

Blueberry's picture

Only for dogs an has very limited use.

alice's picture

Thanks Blueberry.

alice's picture

Having had a cold the last little while and I have been testing out herbal antiviral stuff as a practice run. Our home made spice tea with licorice root and thyme is also a good 'un.

I made this garlic condiment aka 'nuclear condiment' as a way to eat as much raw garlic as possible and actually decided it's surprisingly tasty. Husband also likes it, thank goodness. Made with some of the ingredients from our seasonal box from our CSA's partner farm in Spain which we collected not long ago -- olive oil and lemon. We can grow plenty of garlic in the UK climate as long as it's in a sunny place.

10 cloves of garlic, grated.
Juice of half a lemon
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 tsp whole grain mustard
1/2 tsp local honey
1/2 tsp fine ground salt
1/4 tsp ground white pepper
1/4 tsp ground turmeric

Mix well. Dribble over hot or cold foods.

I have been trying out eating about 3/4 of this each day. I think from my memory of when I last read Stephen Harrod Buhner's book 'Herbal antibiotics' some time ago, that garlic is most effective if you don't use it regularly but then take plenty when you need it so after this cold is thoroughly gone I will not eat garlic for a while until it's needed again.
[Sorry about all the edits, forgot to add the photo and then got it wrong.]

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ClareBroommaker's picture

Imagine it drizzled over potatoes.

We only have enough fresh garlic to make one batch of this. But I have a bin full of dried garlic. I take it dried garlic is not as effective as fresh?

alice's picture

Thank you Clare =D

Mountainmoma posted this thread about food storage including some tips on rehydrating dried vegetables in the comments.

I don't see why dried garlic shouldn't be effective as long as it's been dried at a low temperature, or, I have heard, even cooked at least ten minutes after it has been chopped. I think it is in dentist Steven Lin's book 'The dental diet' all about eating for dental health, he mentions that the active ingredient allicin is developed whenever the garlic is cut, and that as long as it is left for ten minutes for the allicin to develop, the allicin isn't then destroyed when it is cooked. It's just if garlic is cooked right away after cutting the allicin doesn't have time to develop if this is correct. I am not sure it there is a home test for allicin. People tend to keep garlic through the year in the UK -- the traditional french kitchen image has a plaited rope of dried garlic bulbs hanging up that you break the bottom bulb off to use, as it usually stays good in an airy place at room temperature. Easy if you grow softneck garlic types yourself but ridiculously expensive to buy when I looked into it once. Obviously seen as a decorative item for your high status second home kitchen =D But it doesn't keep beyond a year I think. [edited to fix broken link]

ClareBroommaker's picture

My garlic is whole, passively dried bulbs, most of them quite small, harvested two years ago from a patch in the little orchard I had leased, but which was sold without telling me ahead of time. I should poke around the internet to see if they might still be medicinal.

I guess I should stick the fresh garlic in the ground this week if the soil dries enough....Yeah, I left laundry hanging on the edge of my back porch last night, a fairly reliable way to draw some rain. ;)

alice's picture

Must be worth a try to plant those then. I've not heard of it being viable to two years but if the cloves feel sound I think there's a good chance some might germinate.