Should "Spirituality" get a Circle in Green Wizardry?

David Trammel's picture

For long term readers of JMG and the ADR, who have read about his thoughts on Green Wizardry and those skill we all will need to relearn as our present day civilzation collapses, I hope you have been noticing the changes to the GW Circle Forum.

I and the other GW moderators, along with our members, have been slowly refining the kind of cirriclum a future green wizard might follow. What skills he or she would need to learn first, and what skills would come later.

We have recently added several new circles.

First, our new Third Circle: Money, will discuss the ways you can stretch your income. And as JMG has suggested, help you develop ways to get out of the "Moneyed Economy".

Second, our new Fifth Circle: Animal Husbandry, is in responce to several of our members wanting a place to discuss the animals in their lives, both pets and protection as well as livestock and food.

And Third, our new Eleventh Circle: Community Building is to recognize that a man with a plentiful garden, surrounded by five men who are starving, is a man with a serious problem. For better or worse, Green Wizards must become a force for their local community, in fostering sustainability or promoting green alternatives and smart legislation so people can learn to feed themselves.


Now this brings up my current question, should a course in "Green Wizardry" include discussion in spirituality and philosophy?

I don't consider myself a follower of an orginized religion yet consider myself very spiritual. JMG himself thought Buddism might see a resurgance in a collapsed society.

Do you think this is appropriate? And do you think we can have a discussion on this civilly and with respect?

I don't think it should included spirituality. When times do get tough, people always drop back down to race and religion - which will fractionalize any work being done here. The information needs to cut across all lines, or what is the point? You all know damn well the alternative is to get a gun and shoot the "enemy".

This forum is best as about doing something. Becoming self-reliant first then teaching those others that will come along wanting/needing to learn sustainable practices. Do something! That is what JMG has been essaying about off and on over the few years I have been reading these ideas.

So have a program in place that starts small. Copy a guild-type program with levels of accomplishment. Award the participants titles along the way. Plant some tree seeds, use less fossil fuel, grow some of your own food, read a book, all relatively easy things that can be done to start a newbie down the path of becoming a Green Wizard!

Put together the ten first easy steps that would qualify someone as a "Green Wizard in Learning"! Qualify the participant. Send them a pin. Teach then a signal recognized by other Green Wizards. Make it interesting. Leave the pomp and circumstance to the religious organizations please!

I would be hesitant to dedicate a circle to spirituality/religion. While I am an advocate of free speech and religious freedom, I do not think that this has a place within the Green Wizards forum. One reason I like this forum is that it is very "to the point" and there is very little thread drift. Discussion is good, but when you are trying to learn about something specific to gardening or making a solar powered water heater, and the conversation starts going elsewhere it is frustrating. I see a circle dedicated to spirituality being nothing but a soap box for those inclined to step up onto it! We might as well start a circle for politics as well and see where that gets us! I don't mean to be negative, but there is my 2 cents. If the mods of this forum decide to add a circle for religion et al., I just won't go to that part of the site, simple as that....

PS - I think the new circles that have been recently added are great ideas and hope to see people start posting in them. This is a great site, and I am proud to be a part of it!

Hi, just joined the forum- a great idea. Looking through recent posts to get myself aquainted I see this topic.

I do agree with the sentiment of wanting to keep things on a practical focus. Nonetheless, anyone who has read JM Greer's the long descent will know that he talks about how dealing with spiritualty will be an unavoidable part of descent. And it seems many people are extremely uncomfortable with this aspect. Its understandable and another forum to endlessly debate 'religion' and 'spirituality' won't do anyone any favours.

But perhaps the title of this entire site gives a clue - green wizzards. A wizzard is often thought of as someone who uses spirituality in a intensively practical way. I remember one bright spark saying 'the world needs narrative production at least as much as it needs lightbulbs'. Which suggests this ill defined thing called 'spirituality' supplies a very real need (as much as bread making does). So there's the potential to treat the issue in a practical way - littered with emotional triggers hazzards as it is.

Perhaps the least controversial and potentially divisive way is to have it as part of the 'community' circle. i.e simple effective 'open source' ceremonies that help bind community etc. How people will celebrate the seasons or get married in the absence of bridal stores and wedding planners

Glad to have you with us!

Yes, spirituality is an essential piece of Life and of post-peak life, but I think we didn't want to get too far from the how-to's. Honestly, it's a bit of work to moderate a large site, and we're all volunteers also trying to get our places prepped and shifted to more sustainable... so if we focus on providing resources for those trying to change their lives over, it is a good little piece of assistance.