Discussions on DC Power
LowTech Magazine's website has a good article on the advantages and disadvantages of DC power.
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2016/04/slow-electricity-the-return-of-lo...
I suspect what we will see is a return to how things were when electricity was first introduced. That is electricity is used for low power devices like lighting and smaller appliances, while larger powered devices like your stove or washing machine will be powered by non-electrical means. In the transition phase a hybrid 12v dc/120v ac system will come into standard use.
lathechuck
Mon, 12/23/2019 - 19:50
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DC power for lighting and radio
There's really no substitute for electricity when it comes to personal communication, but it doesn't take very much. A few watts into a VHF or UHF radio can transmit throughout a neighborhood; into an HF radio, a county, state, or more. (Long distance commercial communication was done with heliographs (mirrors) on sunny days, and signal fires at night, but that takes a vast investment in labor and training.) Enough LED lighting to, say, read poetry or play cards, takes a fraction of a watt, and can be provided from a modest battery charged from the sun during the day, and is much cheaper than candle or oil lamp light... once you've got it built.
Sweet Tatorman
Sun, 12/29/2019 - 12:29
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LED lighting will be the ticket post fast crash
Years of reading JMG has persuaded me that lengthy slow stepwise decline is a more likely scenario than a fast crash. That said, fast crash cannot be entirely discounted as so many vulnerabilities seem to be present in modern industrial civilization. I personally do not expect it will be likely that I will be significantly impacted by either since I have attained the age to be largely parasitic on the younger generations and hence will not be around long enough.
That said, I find the fast crash scenarios to be more interesting as thought experiments. Over the years I have given a fair amount of thought to how one might prepare should they choose to do so. I think my best insight is that it is not useful to be mentally invested in any particular scenario as you very likely will be wrong. What is useful is to identify commonalities of end result. All the end results that are deemed very unlikely to be survivable are the ones to not worry about at all as by your assessment they are not survivable. All of the end results that are potentially survivable, regardless of the specific scenario that led to that result, are the ones to consider preparatory action if one is so inclined.
For me personally the worst end result to consider survivable would feature little or no grid electricity but society and commerce functioning to some degree on a very localized level. This brings to mind JMG's concept of salvage economy. In any localized society/economy survival is enhanced on an individual level by one's usefulness to the community at large. In preparing for a salvage economy it is worthwhile to prep in a manner that leverages one's personal skill set, whatever it might be, in the context of a salvage economy. In economics there is the concept of "stranded asset". This can be defined as an asset which in different circumstances has value but due to it's current location or circumstance has little or no value. A good example would be associated gas at an oil wellhead where there is no infrastructure to take the gas thus it is flared.
Finally getting to the original topic of this thread, an example of a stranded asset in a no grid electricity scenario is the investment in electrical wiring and associated fixtures in every home. Originally costing several thousand $ it is rendered stranded by lack of electricity. As Lathechuck very correctly noted earlier in this thread it takes very little electricity to provide a useful amount of lighting by way of LED lamps. Except for the LED lamps themselves and a few watts of solar panel everything else to make lighting possible is available as stranded assets. Initially 12V car batteries will be widely available.
A longer term solution for the battery needs are the ubiquitous Li-ion batteries in so many consumer items. These would require a bit more advance material preparation and associated expertise to provide necessary charge/discharge control as well as stepup or stepdown switching voltage regulation to match the design voltage range of the LED lamps. The LED lamps themselves could be a viable cottage industry were the components at hand and can yield much higher efficiencies than any of the commercial product I have examined which are largely crap.
Necessary control circuitry is very simple, as little as one transistor and one resistor though two of each yields much tighter current regulation. With surface mount construction simple circuits such as these can be fabricated with very few resources provided you have them. Reflowing can be done in a frypan if better equipment is unavailable. The lamp screw bases can be salvaged from compact fluorescent lamps. Stockpiled in quantity, component cost per 12V lamp utilizing 4 surface mount LEDs and capable of setting power up to 1.5 watts could be on the order of 25 cents per lamp. Efficiency can be better than any commercial product I have seen in 12V LED lamps.
So yes, I think low voltage DC will have a place in the future using the same household wiring and fixtures originally installed for grid supplied AC.
lathechuck
Wed, 01/01/2020 - 17:01
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Efficiency vs simplicity in voltage regulation
While you can actually design a simple, safe, power conditioning circuit to run LEDs from 12V DC, there are a couple of subtleties that come to mind. First, what are the tolerances on your "12V" power? Automotive "12V" power is actually 12.5 from the battery when the motor isn't running, but regulated between 13.4 and 14.5 when the motor is running. Solar panel voltage varies over an even wider range: a 100W panel rated for a 12V system might put out 18V (or more, depending on the load) in full sun. A simple circuit that works fine on 12V might fail catastrophically when hit with 18V, unless it's designed for that level of input voltage.
Second, a single-transistor "linear" regulator that is reasonably efficient with 12V input will be wasting at least 33% of the input energy when fed with 18V. On the other hand, a more complex "switching" regulator circuit can take quick "sips" of 18V, or longer swigs at 12V, and smooth out the flow to get the proper voltage and current to the load. (In fact, it could be designed to accept 100V.)
Third, just as you need to consider over-voltage conditions, you might want to consider under-voltage. Maybe you have solar panels that can put out 100W at 18V on a sunny day, but only 3 W at 9V on a cloudy day. If you'd rather have a 1W radio all by itself than nothing at all, a power-controller that can increase the voltage would come in handy. A buck-boost switching regulator can draw more current than the load requires, though at a lower voltage, and step it up to the required voltage (with less current than it started with, but enough for the load). (I don't know whether "3W at 9V" is a realistic point on the power vs irradiance curve, since it's so far below nominal that my sources don't tabulate it. In general, available current falls a lot faster than available voltage, as the light dims.)
Sweet Tatorman
Thu, 01/02/2020 - 08:53
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Subtle?
@Lathechuck
While your points are good ones I'm not sure I understand what you consider to be subtle. The essence of your points is that if utilizing a linear current regulator scheme the pass element must be able to handle the required power dissipation under all design operating conditions and there can be situations where added efficiency can be had at the expense of the added complexity of a switching regulator scheme. No subtlety here, just basic engineering considerations.
I may be not understanding one of your points however. You wrote: >"linear" regulator that is reasonably efficient with 12V input will be wasting at least 33% of the input energy when fed with 18V<. I assume you selected 18V as it is typical of the Vmpp of a typical 36 cell panel operating at standard conditions. If you are feeding this directly into your nominal 12V LED lamps it would imply you have no battery in the system to buffer the voltage down to battery voltage. While this could be done, it doesn't sound like a practical system. Folks mostly want light when the sun isn't shining. In the context of a nominal 12V Lb-acid battery system it would be prudent to design linear current regulated lamps handle up to 16V or so to accommodate the few hours a month that the battery is bring equalized.
I am obsessively enamored with DC-DC switching regulators and incorporate them into designs wherever it makes sense. I have designed and built quite a few lamps where switching regulators were incorporated at the lamp using IC's designed as LED drivers. If you wish to go that route I can highly recommend the Zetex ZXLD1360. Efficiencies of 95% are attainable. For nominal 12VDC systems this approach made more sense up to 6 or 7 years ago when the Vf of white LEDs had not been reduced enough to use a series string of 4 in a linear current regulator scheme. Times have changed. The Vf of the best available LEDs have gotten down to about as close to theoretical limits as they can. As an example of one of my reference designs, consider use of the CREE JE2835 LED in a series string of 4 driven at 100mA (nominal 1.25W lamp). The voltage drop across the string runs around 11.4V. If a fully charged Lb-acid battery is supplying 12.6V the % of battery power actually reaching the LED string would be 11.4/12.6=90.5%. This is only marginally less than the 95% I've obtained with the ZXLD1360 which would be my preferred IC for the switching scheme. The advantage of the switching scheme would be less at lower battery voltage and greater at the higher voltage of the battery under charging conditions. The percent of time the battery is both near full charge and also being charged is not large in a typical off-grid system. Off grid folks I know are delighted if their (Lb-acid) batteries can attain fully charged 1 out of 3 days. With current limited charging the battery voltage for a given state of charge (SOC) will vary with charging rate. Typical off-grid systems have maximum charging rates of C/20 or less. At a C/20 rate the battery voltage doesn't rise to 13.6V until a 90% SOC is reached.
As noted in my earlier post, I can build linear current regulated lamps up to 1.5W for under 25 cents. Could go to 3W for under 35 cents. Now taking the ZXLD1360 switcher as an example, current Digikey price for a reel of 3000 is $3151.20 or about $1.05 each. Single piece price is $2.45. So even buying in full reel quantity I can build 4 complete linear lamps for the price of just the switcher IC alone.
Did I mention that I enamored with DC-DC switching regulators?
In a post crash salvage economy I see the best use of switching regulators both in the step up and step down flavors is in matching available PV panels to available batteries and available batteries to a standardized nominal 12V lamp design. While initially automotive batteries would likely be plentiful they are not designed for deep cycling service. With careful system design and use I can get about 5 years max out of one if cycling is limited to the top 10-20% of SOC. I have actual data on this as I use a BCI size code U1 (garden tractor/mower battery) to power my electric fence out at the garden. Longer lived batteries will be the common Li-ion types as well as NiMh types salvaged from hybrid autos. For most battery/panel combinations a step down switcher would be used to match panel to battery and a step up switcher to match battery to a standardized 12V lamp design. Example would be a single cell 3.7V nominal Li-ion cell to an 18V PV panel via a stepdown switcher and the 3.7V cell to the 12V lamps via a step up switcher. Using the insanely inexpensive modules currently available out of China the step down switching can be done for under $2 and the step up for about 50 cents. With a few cents of added parts that step down switcher can be modified into a MPPT solar charge controller. If I were to prepare for the apocalypse I'd rather be hoarding this stuff rather than the guns and ammo thing.
You wrote: > (I don't know whether "3W at 9V" is a realistic point on the power vs irradiance curve, since it's so far below nominal that my sources don't tabulate it. In general, available current falls a lot faster than available voltage, as the light dims.)<. I can give you a data point on this, 5% vs 100% insolation.
A few years ago I did the following test. Ambient conditions: ~50F, wind 5-10 mph, full sun. With full sun at normal incidence the open circuit voltage was 21.71V and the Isc recorded. The panel was then oriented and shaded such that it received no direct sun and only received light from the clear sky. Isc was reduced to ~5% of the full sun value and Voc was measured at 19.66V. There *are* some subtleties in interpreting these data. Even though the ambient temperature remained the same the actual panel temperature in the shaded case would be lower and thus tend to raise Voc due to the tempco of Voc w.r.t. temperature which is typically taken as -0.33%/C. Also the power spectrum of scattered light from a blue sky is quite different from direct sunlight and this has some, though likely small, impact on Voc for a given Isc. I would expect that monocrystalline vs polycrystalline panels would differ a bit in high vs low insolation Voc performance. IIRC the above data was obtained with a mono panel but I am not certain about that.
lathechuck
Sun, 01/05/2020 - 20:45
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Thanks!
This'll take me a while to digest, but you've given me a lot to think about.
I'll bet that you can tell me, if anyone can, how to determine the minimum battery capacity to use with a solar panel. That is, suppose I have a panel rated for 150 W, a charge controller for 200W, and a 12V SLA battery of just 7Ah. Is something going to blow up if I hook these together? I don't know what the safe charging current would be for such a battery. 7A?
Sweet Tatorman
Tue, 01/07/2020 - 05:44
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Battery/panel sizing
>I'll bet that you can tell me, if anyone can, how to determine the minimum battery capacity to use with a solar panel.< For the case of using a 36 cell panel with a standard conditions Vmpp of ~18V charging a 12V battery via a PWM type controller if you wish to stay within the battery manufacturer's recommendations for maximum charge rate then the battery should have maximum charge rate at least as high as the specified short circuit current (Isc) of the panel. Using your specific example of a 12V SLA 7Ahr battery. Small SLA batteries typically have a maximum charge rate of C/3 to C/4 and it is usually printed on the side of the battery. Let's say your 7 Ahr battery is specified at a max charge rate of C/3 then max charging current should be limited to 7/3=2.33A. The panel therefore should have an Isc no greater than 2.33A. Working from the other direction, your 150W panel likely has a specified Isc of ~9A. The required minimum battery capacity to stay within the C/3 rate would then be 3x9=27 Ahr. You asked >Is something going to blow up if I hook these together?< Probably not. If the charging setpoints of your charge controller are appropriate you can get away with charge rates well in excess of the manufacturer's recommended maximum value. The following link has a discussion of this:
https://www.powerstream.com/SLA-fast-charge.htm
It can be advantageous to have an excessively large panel for the battery size as it enables short charging times even on days of low insolation if that capability is needed.
If you have a large panel relative to your battery capacity and you wish to stay within the recommended charge rate you can accomplish this by inserting a stepdown switching regulator with current limiting capability between the panel and charge controller. Ebay link below for one that would suit your specific situation provided that you did not need charging current greater than 4A. Less than $2. I've used quite a few of these and they work great. You will see these sold using either the XL4005 or XL4015 IC. If you get the ones with the XL4015 IC performance will be enhanced by adding a 1uf cap between pins 4 and 5. I usually solder the cap directly onto the IC leads.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/XL4015-E1-5A-Lithium-Battery-Step-down-Charging...
lathechuck
Mon, 01/06/2020 - 18:28
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Limiting the charging current
Thanks. That all makes sense to me. Maybe I should plan to limit the charging current directly, by throwing a bedsheet over the solar panel when the sun's too strong!
By the way, when I was talking about driving a load directly from a panel, with wide voltage swings, I wasn't thinking of lighting (for which there would be a battery to store the solar energy until darkness returns). I was thinking about running a radio, or charging a phone, which one might want to be able to do during daylight hours, especially if you have no working batteries. I'm anxious about long-term battery availability, relative to solar panel survival.
Sweet Tatorman
Tue, 01/07/2020 - 05:52
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I like it.
>Maybe I should plan to limit the charging current directly, by throwing a bedsheet over the solar panel when the sun's too strong!<
I like it. Sometimes the lowest tech solutions are the best.
Edit: A handkerchief would do the job. You only need to shade a single cell to limit the output of the whole panel.
lathechuck
Mon, 06/22/2020 - 19:45
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Portable PV storage
See my comment on the "DC micro grid solar power philosophy" for a photo of my dual batter, 12V/7 Ah solar gadget. It seems to work; I've run some ham radio conversations on it.
Quite by accident, I had a brief conversation with another ham radio operator in New York State (from my home in Maryland, near DC), when my radio was transmitting just a Watt or two. (I'd turned it all the way down for some microphone circuit testing, and forgot to turn it back up for regular operation.) The conversation flowed more smoothly at 100W, but 1W was enough to communicate in a pinch.
Blueberry
Wed, 01/01/2020 - 19:18
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Above my pay grade
Anything more than a 78xx voltage regulator and a few caps is above my pay grade.