Plan B - My Retirement Home To Come

Submitted by David Trammel on Sat, 03/18/2017 - 19:29
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The Sixth Circle: Home, Shelter and Security

Ok for several reasons, the plan I had for buying a few acres of land in Ditmer, Missouri, about 60 miles to the Southwest of St Louis, has fallen through.

Time for a Plan B...

I have a sister, who is 2 years younger than me (this year to be 58) who owns a home about 2 miles from me, in the northern area of St Louis County. We are just south of the airport if you want to google the general area. It is an older suburban area probably built in the 50s. There is a small room in her basement, under her front stairs which still has an old heating oil tank.

The home is very small, relative to today's homes but sits on a huge lot.

(For privacy sake, I'm only showing the back side of the home)

My little pickup in the driveway, lol.

Now the backyard...

I am standing at the end of the driveway. The large tree to the far left is the same tree in the top photo. Best estimate is the backyard is roughly 50x100 feet.

Now I had lunch today with my sister and made the proposal that I buy her backyard as a retirement place.

(True the proposal was more than just that.)

In exchange for everything past the large tree on the right of the photo, I would help her financially and physically with some of the things she wants to do with her home. She wants the third side of the backyard privacy fenced (left of picture), new energy efficient windows and a bathroom renovation.

Be about $10K just for that.

I want to have the trees trimmed back very aggressively so I can get as much sunlight on the area I plan for raised beds and vegatables,

Also I want her home upgraded for weatherizing and winterizing as Greer suggests, which means a ton of DIY and HowTo posts coming as we get into this on the Green Wizards Forums. That means insulation, caulking and all that. Her home has two bedroom, but they are tiny bedrooms, so I want to add a small room to her basement. While I plan on living 90% of the time in a tiny home I build in the backyard, there will be times of very cold or heat, that I may want to move to the house and sleep in the basement.

The house has a walk down entrance to the basement, next to the back stairs. given that I work third shift, I can almost have a separate living space.

So probably double my projected $10K investment. if not pushing it to $15K.

She also has a outstanding morgage of about $60K, which I would really like gone before I retire. I doubt that is doable. given the short window of 7-10 years to retirement AND to build what I want. At least we can pay most of it down and then with two incomes be ready if we have an emergency. While currently Social Security would pay us both around $1300 a month, given the Republican domanance of government and their stated goal of gutting the social safety nets, I anticipate that SS will drop their payout in my lifetime.

Realistically, we both are going into retirement with just Social Security as a income. That is one of the reasons, I want a sizable garden in the backyard, so we can at least have a realiable source of food.

My sister was surprisely receptive to my proposal.

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THE DEAL

Ok so in exchange for my money, I get the backyard from the large tree to the right just out of frame, back to the fence. Its about 50x50 feet of area.

Now there are a few things I want done right off.

The tree you see in center, with the gash in its trunk, leans dangerously back towards the neighbor's property and shed. That tree has to come down.

I had a tree removal service come in and make a bid, to remove it, cart off the remains and to "stump" it, which means to grind down the exposed stump to below the ground is going to run me about $1100. While they will depose of the branches and such, I want to have them leave me the larger limbs. My sister has a old Franklin stove that she does not use, that I can steal. It may be too big and leaky for the tiny home I want given the level of insulation I plan for it but I also plan on a good size workshop which it might be good for. That means wood.

There is a bunch of other tree trimming that needs to be done, but I'd like to try out this service before I spend too much money. They come highly recommended but I want to see them work first.

THE BUILD:

The question I want to throw out there to everyone, is "What would you do with this?"

I have a general idea, but I hope that a few of you will offer suggestions I never thought of, and can incorporate into my final plans.

At the very least this is what I want.

- A Tiny Home of 150 to 250 sq feet. I would like to put it into the ground 3-4 feet down.

- A Green House of 100 or so sq feet. Perferably attached to the tiny home.

- A Workshop of about 200-250 sq feet

- Raised Growing Beds (8-12) of 4x12 feet

- A Chicken Coop for 4-6 chickens

on top of that, I wouldn't mind a small meditation garden back near the bamboo. (Its in the back right corner of the area.

Here is a graphic layout of the place

Big size of the picture: http://www.greenwizards.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/backyard4.jpg

Some notes:

Each grid square is 4 feet by 4 feet. The lighter green circles are what I estimate are the areas the roots of the trees extend to near the surface. So only surface building there.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have a idea for a layout but want to see if everyone here can offer some out of the box suggestion.

BTW, the sun shines from the right.

lathechuck's picture

lathechuck

Wed, 05/03/2017 - 19:01

If I were in your situation, I would carefully weigh the possibility of upgrading the existing house to better meet your needs, rather than add new construction. If you think your bedroom is small, watch "Das Boot" and see how they lived in submarines! If you need more sound-proofing between the bedrooms, fill the walls with insulation and add an extra layer of sheet-rock, but use the existing house for your basic needs: sleep, sanitation, and cooking. Learn to live with your sister. (I'm not saying it's a trivial task, and I don't even know her.) Then you'll have more resources (time, space, and cash) for your workshop and garden projects, and no hassles with building codes. (From the building inspector's point of view, YOU may be a harmless eccentric willing to abide peaceably in your hut, but the next owner might not be so enlightened, and become a nuisance to the neighborhood.) Also, you'll want to have space to store your firewood, and harvests (I store butternut squash for months in my basement).

David Trammel's picture

David Trammel

Thu, 05/04/2017 - 15:23

Upgrading the house is high on my list to do. Sorry if that wasn't clearer.

I plan on using the kitchen there extensively, its not large but it is well laid out. Also the basement will be used for two small freezers (we both own one). The basement will get the existing cobbled together wood shelving redone so we can maximize storage space. I want to can and dry store as much food as I can from the garden of course. The bathroom is slated for a major upgrade as well.

So yes, for cooking and sanitation, the main house will be the primary provider.

Sleeping will happen there probably only when its either very cold or very hot. Its hard to see from this picture, but the house is very tiny. All of the ones in this older subdivision are.

For some reason the basements in these homes are set very shallow in the ground. The lower limit of the siding in this picture of the rear of the house is were the floor of the living area is. Almost 4 feet above the gorund. There is no way to add anything to this house.

Now I do understand your point about permits and housing codes.

The additional building will be a office and workshop primarily and be used as such. With the amount of gardening I plan to do, I will need the room for related chores. Its just that the office will have a fold down Murphy bed on one wall, easily enough removed for the next owner. I might be planning to spend most of my time out there, but i don't plan on modifying it into a obvious tiny "home".

And I understand your point about how small of a space people can live in (ala Das Boat).

I am at my heart a craftsman and maker of things. The shear amount of tools I have almost demand their own building lol. And if I can swing it, the second building will be that workshop.

I am running into what I expect many of us are, that their family and friends fail to see the perdicament that our Civilization is in, and the fact that a collapse is baked into the books at this point. Over the next 5-7 years, i have to make what preparations i can to see myself and her thru what will happen, and at the same time deal with the bureacrats that still have enough power to derail my efforts.

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Madam Oh

Fri, 05/05/2017 - 04:53

They sound very well thought out.

My husband is starting to get a sense of urgency about finding a similar house to what you have, and he is exaclty like you with the tools. If we are realy lucky, we'll get an old farmhouse with outbuildings, and then immediately start working on them to ensure they are all in good shape.

We might just move back to his hometown, about 100 mk south of Fukushima. There is a radiation hazard in the area, but the hometown advantage, plus another serious prepper (who warned us in Japan about Peak Oil a few years before it happened and suggested what the consequences might be like) nearby. Even when I make a big effort to socialize locally, I am occasionally reminded how unwelcome outsiders are in the town we are living in (in a rented tin shack dwelling). I was looking forward to meeting a newcomer, a foreigner named William, but never got to. The Unwelcome Committee got there first, just after he'd moved all his stuff into the house he was renting, and burned it down. All the locals know who the arsonist is, but of course the police don't. We'd probably be better off taking our chances with radioactivity.

Sophie Gale

Mon, 04/17/2017 - 00:32

Corporate Media Ignoring Toxic Nuclear Mess

https://truthagainstthemachine.com/index.php/2017/04/15/mainsteam-media-...

"Residents of North St. Louis and St. Charles are still haunted by the effects of The Manhattan Project, which led to the production of the United States’ first nuclear weapons during World War II. 8,700 tons of nuclear waste have been sitting on the surface of the West Lake Landfill Superfund Site in Bridgeton, Missouri for almost 44 years now.

"The radioactive material, acquired by Mallinckrodt Chemical Company in 1942, was illegally dumped and began contaminating the nearby Coldwater Creek, parks, and several other locations in the area. Residents were left completely in the dark about the situation for decades."

Apparently you've got an underground fire at a landfill that's now within 600 ft. of a nuclear waste site?

"The entire St. Louis area is in danger of further contamination of their drinking water, soil, and the very air they breathe. Karen Nickel has noted an uptick in appendix cancer cases affecting those close to the site, along with the plethora of other illnesses residents are experiencing due to the toxins."

David Trammel's picture

David Trammel

Mon, 04/17/2017 - 12:57

As I understand it the effected areas of Coldwater Creek, are north of me by 4-5 miles. The landfill though is directly west of me at about the same distance.

While the link you provided bemoaned the fact that national media isn't covering the story, I can assure you the local media here is covering it. Most people know about it. The stories and counter-stories going around are of course there to promote each side's agenda.

As someone with more than a passing knowledge of nuclear material, radiation and its effects, I'm actually not that worried about a mushroom cloud forming over St Louis raining down deadly fallout and forcing us all to run.

I'm more worried about the smell from the landfill, as our company bought a new building to move to this Fall, that's just a mile of so away. I hear it can be very bad on a hot day. Not something we can close up the door and trust the air conditioning to mask.

Here is a article, a bit long winded on the science of the situation at the landfill.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/misplaced-fears-radiation-risks...

Radiation, and that is ANY radiation to in my opinion has gotten such a scary reputation, that the mere thought of being exposed to it, causes people to freak out.

Coldwater Creek is like many low lying areas that get water run off. Any dust born pollutants will accumulate there, including those that emmit radiation, and raise the chance of cancers. But then so will something that I'm sure every old time auto mechanic used to do to greasy hands and that was give them a splash of gasoline to break up the grease before washing them. I wouldn't do that now that I've learned how chemicals get into the ecosystem, lol.

My future home is actually situated on a small hill top so maybe any contamination that has been blown here, has also been blown away. I do know at the level of radiation they are talking about, it would probably require expensive testing to find out.

I will offer a personal opinion on the EPA's foot dragging. St Louis has alot of smaller sites that have been cleaned up over the years, and I don't doubt that all that money coming to one city hasn't had a Senator from another state sometimes privately complaining we are getting more than our share (while his state doesn't).

Ultimately my sister and I, as well as our family has too much sunken capital in our homes here, to move. I will keep an eye on it, take what precautions I can but put it under the same category as a tornado or big earthquake.

k9iua

Thu, 03/23/2017 - 07:59

It is unclear to me about the financial arrangements with your sister. I hope you have also thought about this. I gather that your sister is also presently single (or at least you make no mention of her family). If so, for sake of both of your investments, but in particular yours, I would suggest that you and your sister will want to refinance (or retitle) the house and property if only to get you also listed as a co-owner. That way you have rights to continue living in the house and on the property should anything happen to your sister (heaven forbid if it would). Otherwise I'd worry about you being "chucked out" by a change in circumstances and your investments all gone. I realize that this could put you in a bind financially that you may not be prepared for should you have to take on the payments; but even if that is the case, then at least you may have some legal standing in directing the sale of the place later. As just a tenant or guest in your sister's house, you have no rights to back up your claim. At the same time, not knowing Missouri law, you will want to attend to your respective wills and power of attorney statements to also give each other rights to back all this up.

Otherwise I am all for you living with your sister and helping each other out, whatever your designs for the backyard. I trust that you and your sister get along with each other.

Kevin Anderson

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David Trammel

Thu, 03/23/2017 - 09:35

I have an acquaintance who is an attorney. Before I go much further I will schedule a meeting and see what he suggests as a way of legal protection.

BTW she is divorced (many decades) and has no children.

Sophie Gale

Wed, 03/22/2017 - 03:20

Like the whole tree is going to go roots up into the fence? Or part of it is going to split off? I was wondering if the whole thing has to come down or just the crown? There's a house on my bus route, where the owners lopped off the crown, painted the trunk white and put a flower box on top. I admit it looks a bit weird, but people probably don't have a problem trying to pinpoint their address... Depending on the condition of the trunk itself, you could possibly leave it tall, hollow out the top and plant vines up there. I've been nostalgic for wistiera lately. Bees love the stuff. You could take it down to three or four feet and hollow it out--make it a planter or a bird bath. You could put a circular bench around it. Could put a tabletop on it... Could take up woodcarving and make it a totem... Might or might not save you a few bucks

David Trammel's picture

David Trammel

Thu, 03/23/2017 - 10:24

Here's a couple of pictures

Looking at the gash, my best guess is it was termites. There are many small holes typical of them inside of it. A previous owner must have poisoned the heck out of them, because I haven't seen any activity ever.

The side shot shows a bit of the lean. I thought I had a picture with more of the top from the side. Basically all of the limbs and growth is to the left of the trunk.

Here's a front shot from the end of the driveway

The leaning tree is just right of center, in front of the neighbor's shed/barn. All of those limbs are to the rear of the trunk. So the leaning tree has quite a bit of "sail" to it. Should it ever get a very bad wind, on top of a week of rain to loosen the soil and I worry its going to topple.

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In the second phase of the tree trimming, which I'll have done in early May, I'm having them trim off the two large limbs (in yellow), and then trim the lower limbs up to the branching at the end of the red arrow.

The yellow arrow limbs need to be removed because I personally am going to cut down the three smaller trees just to the right of that tree. As it is, those three might end up on those branchs and not drop. With the leaning tree gone, and those two limbs off, dropping those three will be simple enough that I don't need to pay someone. They should add quite a bit to my firewood supply, since the all have a decent trunk of a good size.

They also sit right on our side of the property line, so they need to go before we can put up the privacy fence.

The red arrowed tree is near enough to the house, that dead branches fall off it onto the roof of the back room. So I want it trimmed back too.

Doing all of that should increase the sunlight on the backyard. These pictures were take at about 10am. You can see the Sun has cleared the shadow of the house to the edge of where I will be putting raised beds. With the other trimming, I should have good sunlight on them all the way until Dusk.

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In the first picture you can clearly see my feral bamboo patch, lol. It seriously needs some thinning and management (more on that in a separate post).

SylRu

Tue, 03/21/2017 - 11:45

Exciting!

Several items which might be worth considering:

1) water storage from gutters. This will depend on local regulations, of course, and size will be determined by your expected rain patterns... I don't know what to recommend for Missouri.

2) Solar heated outdoor shower. I wish I could remember where I saw this... the heating element is a coil of black hose with good solar exposure, leading to valve and shower head. The structure is 4 walls and a raised floor, with water running off into an ornamental garden bed. Might be only seasonal use, and something you could take down and store over the winter.

3) Tools and plans to turn extra bamboo into trellises for vines and beans. Sell 'em to your neighbors?

4) Plans for edible ornamentals for the front yard? Hot peppers are exciting and bug-resistant.

5) Pick a location for a solar box cooker, and give yourself a nearby (picnic) table for prep work. I'm thinking the south side of the lot, but that would depend on whether that area is shaded by neighbor's buildings.

6) A low-tech planning system is a scale picture of the back yard and cardboard cutouts of each planned building/item. (If you scale the height as well, you can use a flashlight to simulate the sun and see what gets shaded.)

marieann

Sat, 03/18/2017 - 21:50

I second the your idea of staying with your sister. Family is a good source of support in good and bad times. Consolidating your resources is a good idea.I can understand why your sister would be receptive

There will be 3 large trees in the backyard.This will be a lot of shade, which is not good for veggie gardens, however it looks like the yard will get mainly afternoon sun...which is good. Don't plan on garden beds too close to the wooden fence because of the shade it will cast.

First you need to mark out all the areas you plan to build on. I find I always underestimate how much actual garden space I will end up with ,having a visual will help.

David Trammel's picture

David Trammel

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 10:57

The nice thing about having access to the property, is I can spend an afternoon, setting up actual stakes in the ground at the locations I want the buildings and areas. This will give me a better idea of how tight or how large is my various plans and ideas.

I may actually mark up a prototype of the living area in my basement here. Its large enought the entire tiny home will fit in it. Then I could get a real good idea how tight the space will be. Maybe even living in it for a few weeks to see how i need to change it to be livable.

Cathy McGuire

Sat, 03/18/2017 - 21:12

Wow, it does look like you've done your homework. I'm so glad your sister was receptive; it'll be good to have family and/or friends around when things get tough. Have you checked the zoning re; the 2nd dwelling, or are you counting on lack of enforcement? I know out here, even with several acres, you can't have a 2nd dwelling unless you're a nurse/caretaker on your parents' or family plot and that's temporary permission. Are you planning to have sewer/water/electric hookup for the small dwelling? Have you thought about combining all the buildings such that you'd have more "wandering space" w/o having to go outside between? Or would it be less conspicuous with the 3 small "sheds"? Yes, having the greenhouse attached would give you some passive solar heating which could be good.

Chickens don't take up much space; in fact, if you fence your garden and then have an outer fence, such that the flock forms a "moat" around the garden, they often take care of the slug and bug probablem for you.

The only thought I have is that sustainability takes tools and supplies - are you sure a 250ft house would have enough space? I've often thought that those who live in small houses are also "living off their neighbors" in the sense of having to get most of their things from outside... but maybe the workshop is also the storage/prepping supply?

Those are my first questions/thoughts...

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David Trammel

Thu, 03/23/2017 - 11:30

Have you checked the zoning re; the 2nd dwelling, or are you counting on lack of enforcement? I know out here, even with several acres, you can't have a 2nd dwelling unless you're a nurse/caretaker on your parents' or family plot and that's temporary permission.
 
One of the biggest selling points to country living was the lack of/or lack of enforcement of zoning laws and permitting of features that main stream government thought we "unsafe" aka "just not how we want it done".
 
Do you know it is actually against the law to use grey water to flush a toilet. Toilet water must be fresh. Now how stupid is that?
 
I am figuring on a five year plan before occupancy and most of everything I want done, should not require too many permits or interaction with local building inspectors BUT I want everything I do do to be within code. I learned the hard way years ago to always have the permits on hand. My father enclosed a carport back in the 80's and didn't get a permit for it. The garage door runs, since the kitchen was two steps up from the garage, were in the doorway (at top). When we tried to sell the house, the city made us pull the door out. We ended up getting a roll up door to satisfy them, but the city was pushing hard to make us completely undo the enclosure of the carport, which would have been thousands of dollars to do and probably killed the sale. It was a pain in the (@$$).
 
I am going to try to find out from the building inspector how to satisfy him, BEFORE I do any of the work, as well as what permits I will need. 
 
I am though going to begin attending the city council meetings, making aquaintance with my representative. At the very least I will need to get an ordance crafted and enacted to allow chickens, because we don't have that in this township. There might be other ordances that I need passed.
 
While I would prefer someone else have the job of city councilperson, and I just be a "friend", if it comes down to it, I will run myself. The township that my sister's property is in, is a very small berg among all the others in St Louis. It could easily be a good example of sustainable collapse.
 
It may end up that my tiny home in the backyard is not a residence officially. That permits and such don't allow me to actually live in it. That's why the plan for a smaller basement bedroom is included. Its one thing to say, the tiny home is where I live, its another to say, "Hey, I just wanted some space from my sister, so I had a cot out in the office in back."
 
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Are you planning to have sewer/water/electric hookup for the small dwelling?
 
Yes.
 
Electric should be pretty simple. My sister's house had a new circuit breaker box put in about 5 years ago after a ice storm pulled the electrical wires out of the house. I will have a licensed electrician put an addition box in that then hooks to a buried line that runs to both the workshop, probably along the privacy fence. Once its up, I can dig a shallow trench at its base, and use 3" pvc. I'll put access T's every 20' so I can run other lines, like phone or internet inside of it too.
 
 
Water is more of a challenge.
 
While I plan rain water capture off the roofs of both buildings, the design of the two buildings is with a single flat roof, which is sloped at about 15 degrees towards the front, I am going to need a fresh city water line put in from the house to both too. There is one outside facet near the stairs on the back side. I will talk with a plumber on my options but I expect that I will need a buried water line as well.
 
Sewage, now there's a sticky wickette, lol, and will get its own reply when i have a chance to put together more of the facts.
 
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In the mean time, here is my basic idea for what I want to build.
 
 
 
First, in reply to your thought of combining the buildings, they will have a common roof, separated by the patio / meditation garden where the bamboo is. The natural slope of the land and the way the roof is planned will make rain water capture at the front of the workshop. I only show two 55 gallon barrels but there will be more.
 
You can see why the leaning tree has to go, lol.
 
I don't think i have enough room to have a full size walk in green house, so its probably going to end up a 3-4 foot deep setup, much like a cold frame, where the front glass panels lift up for access during colder weather, or can be entirely removed during the Summer.
 
With a East/West orientation though, it should get Sun all the time. And I could plant medicinal and culinary herbs inside of it, and access them all year, with a sizable thermal mass wall at their back. I'll have to do some experiments on Sun angle so that the roof over shadows the thermal mass during the hot Summer, yet lets the Winter Sun warm it.
 
A smaller depth also has a big advantage. I have read articles about Chinese greenhouses, where they have roll down insulating mats, which the cover the glass in inclement weather or hard cold. This serves to further protect the plants. A shallow green house would mean I could more easily deploy such mats. A larger greenhouse and I would need to get onto the roof to lay them.
 
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The only thought I have is that sustainability takes tools and supplies - are you sure a 250ft house would have enough space? I've often thought that those who live in small houses are also "living off their neighbors" in the sense of having to get most of their things from outside... but maybe the workshop is also the storage/prepping supply?
 
Oh I agree, too many tiny houses you see come attached to an unstated storage locker.
 
I have to have a sizable workshop, lol. I am too much a tinker and maker of crazy stuff, not to have one. As you can see from the plans, its there.
 
This is going to very much a demo and teaching venue. As much as i love the idea of a space that I can meditate again, something I haven't done in years, that patio would just as easily be a place for a table and 4-5 people talking about green wizardry. The large size of the Workshop allows clases too.
 
The buildings look like they take about half of the area, leaving me less to actually grow food. That's not a big downside point since its just my sister and I. I'm not trying to completely feed us, just supliment our diet.
 
I am undecided about the raised bed orientation.
 
If I build them East/West, then the taller pants would be in the beds toward the home building, towards the green house. Shorter plants towards the fence. This would help plants that require their kin near them for polination, BUT would group plants together. Any pest or disease would have an easier time infecting all of that one plant..
 
If I build North/South, then each row would have some separation. I could stagger their start times so that groups of each type of plant comes into ripeness at different times.
 
Let me think on this further...
 
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I did like your suggestion Cathy of a chicken moat. I haven't yet thought of where to put a coop. There aren't alot of options in this plan.
 
You are right that the ground beneath the south privacy fence isn't going to get alot of Sun. I started to think that a chicken coop, built around the one large tree near the fence, and having a chicken run along that fence might be ideal.
 
Let me think more on this.

Garden Housewife

Sun, 03/26/2017 - 04:46

This looks like a good solution for a couple of single siblings. Essentially, you get some of the (non-sexual) benefits of marriage, but with more freedom for both of you.

You could, if you wanted, plant some perennial vegetables in some of the shadier parts of the yard. I've been encouraged by how many perennial veggies can grow in at least partial shade.

Here's a link to give you an idea of a few options. I've ordered mint root and sea kale, but haven't received them yet. I also wanted Chinese yam and ground beans, but they're sold out of both. http://www.foodforestfarm.com/shop

David Trammel's picture

David Trammel

Sun, 03/26/2017 - 08:38

Once the leaning tree is down and the other trees are trimmed back, the privacy fence is a high priority because I want to put some raised gardening beds along the fence between the two big trees on the south.

These will serve several purposes. One they will give me a place to deposit some of the dirt I will be digging up to put in the structures, the first being the concrete slab in the back corner. This will be a level workspace for me as I do my construction. I am going to have electricity run back to it, with an outside tap. That way I'm not running a ton of extension cords.

Second, I plan on using a modified form of "Hugelkultur" on my gardening beds. That is the method where you load up the sublayer of your garden, with tree branches and other organic material, before putting dirt over it. This provides a rich source of nutriants for the plants above. Here is a link.

https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur

Anyone who owns a home knows just how many of those brown composting bags you set out on the curb over the Summer.

Here is a diagram of what I mean

I figure it will take me a couple of years to get a composting cycle set up. In that time, bacteria and worms should turn that layered set up into a very rich planting bed. I can then start adding compost on a regular basis to furhter help it along.

Because of in this kind of set up the initial decomposition phase, the wood tends to pull alot of nitrogen from the soil, I will probably plant a cover crop like clover.

I'm going to continue to experiment and learn with my gardens here at home, but as you say there are many plants that don't mind some shade, and while I may not get the first new raised beds finished this Spring, I will be able to gauge how much sun they get, and be ready to try a few plants in them next Spring.

I will definitely be looking at some of the plants that "Food Forest" people work with.

I expect that this backyard is going to be a better example for urban green wizards, than a acre in the country all out in the open and under full sunlight. Most people have a variety of sunlight levels in places they can grow food. This way i get to experiment with all sorts of plants.

Garden Housewife

Fri, 05/12/2017 - 06:19

Sounds good! It looks like your garden beds will be tall enough to get more light than they otherwise would next to the fence. Is that the case, or am I seeing it wrong?

I'll be interested to hear how your hugelkultur beds turn out. I've been thinking about doing some here. Apparently some people pee, or pour pee, on their hugelkultur beds to replace the nitrogen the wood is grabbing from the soil. You could try it if you wouldn't feel too weird about it.

BTW, I received my plants last week, planted them, and have already seen some new growth on them. Hopefully they help me get food from the parts of my yard I can't garden on.