A Cautionary Tale On Cohousing
I always see people in the prepping community talk about how great it would be if they could just start their own community. Its not as easy as just getting a few like minded people together. Here is one story of the experience going wrong.
"They Took a Chance on Collaborative Living. They Lost Everything."
At the NY Times so it may come up behind a paywall, sorry. I'll see if I can find a link that isn't.
lathechuck
Sat, 02/12/2022 - 20:11
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I haven't read the article, but ...
... it can be hard enough to find ONE person with which to share years of life together, within a long-standing social construct (marriage). Making it work with other "like-minded people", while you're all making it up as you go along, seems unlikely to work out well, especially as the members approach end-of-life. I'm not surprised that it's been tried and found wanting.
As a college student, I was part of a casual discussion about forming a communal living arrangement, on the rural property of a humanities professor. I offered that I might be interested in providing technical support, being an electrical engineering student with a solid 4-H run-your-own-farm background, and I'd leave the social experimentation to the others. It never got off the ground, but it was a useful thought-experiment.
Kay Robison
Sun, 02/13/2022 - 09:27
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In my younger days
I also experiment with friends in a communal living arrangement in a large apartment. We could all live together pretty well, but most decisions concerning money were made by the person who had rented the apartment in the first place and after a time we all went our separate ways. I have thought about these kinds of living arrangements over the years and decided that as artificial constructs, they just wouldn't work in the long run especially if there were no firm guiding principles universally applied and understood. I rather like the ideas of David Holmgren's ideas put forth in Retro Suburbia where the "communal" effort is applied by agreement between independent neighbors when something advantageous to both parties can be produced. In the mean time, the old time spirit of community is developed as it has been in the past by just a willingness to be friendly and neighborly. The Aussie Street story in the front of the book is rather idealized I suppose, but it does include conflict and resolutions.
gkb
Sun, 02/13/2022 - 12:12
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It would help if there were
It would help if there were just more places for boarders and lodgers to be in a walkable area and to have at least one or two meals a day family style so that food expenses could be cut back and not everyone needs their very own washing machine. Sharing refrigeration facilities could be done by two apartment houses that also share a cafeteria style food service. There are many ways to share that do not involve LifeLong Committment to function. Just breaking a Mega Mansion into separate quarters with a shared laundry room for instance. It can be done if the will is there and the expenses are high enough to motivate the cities to stop legislating against shared housing.
lathechuck
Sun, 02/13/2022 - 18:06
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Shared housing
As a college student, I lived in an old 3-story house that had been divided into individual rooms and multi-room apartments. There were four apartments which included cooking facilities, and 9 individual rooms that shared three bathrooms and a kitchen. However, unlike a co-housing system, we all paid rent to the landlord. It was not a social organization or intentional community. As long as one cleaned up one's own messes, we could live as cooperatively or un-cooperatively as we liked. Most of us were nice people, but some were noisy and/or bad-smelling. (There was no laundry room.) All in all, it worked pretty well, except for the homeless and/or drunk strangers who some times turned up in our unsecured common areas.
I would not have wanted to raise children under those circumstances, though!
gkb
Sun, 02/13/2022 - 19:30
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But two or three single
But two or three single parents could share a setup like that and have a common room for the kids with a laundry room to share. It could help with babysitting and when kids get sick to have another parent you know and trust. They could pool resources to hire a part-time cook/housekeeper to prepare ready-to eat casseroles and clean the bathrooms and wash the bedclothes. And a boarding house would be owned by the person who is making a small profit and a living from the space, so would be the one to mediate and prevent messes from becoming a problem for the other tenants. It is possible to have a caravanserai set up for the transients and even the drunks with a safe place to sleep and water to drink and a shower and an open air toilet -- a place that is subsidized by the town and staffed by monk or other charities. There could be Tenancy-In-Common (TiC) arrangements where the whole building is owned in common by the residents and also partly funded by relatives and friends who invest in the building instead of stocks and bonds. Bulk buys and shared costs of things like Insurance, roofing, plumbing replacement fittings, toilet paper, or whatever, beans and canned goods, maybe -- all these different kinds of shared housing could be part of a normal cityscape.
Kay Robison
Mon, 02/14/2022 - 10:03
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Similar ideas
I have had similar ideas about such living arrangements, especially for drug users. A place where they would be sheltered and fed, off the streets, free to use the drugs of their choice that were freely provided by an order of monks or nuns until the user decided they were done using and then there would all the help they needed to reengage with the world. I was told this was totally impractical and wouldn't work. Now I am seeing all the RV's and tents in informal camps round the city, it seems it would be better all around if the city/county would organize a safe place for them to park where they could hook up to a holding tank dump, get their garbage picked up, have a place to get water and shower rather then using the public spaces. Perhaps repair services could be provided by volunteers as many of these RV's are in sad shape. Who would be harmed by such a set up? Could many charities band together to raise funds for such a place?
Teresa from Hershey
Mon, 02/14/2022 - 13:35
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Alternative housing USED to be common at every price point
I'm currently reading Paul Groth's book, Living Downtown: The History of Residential Hotels in the United States.
EVERY form of housing listed above is included. Here's a very rough list.
Flop houses: they take anyone and don't care what you do.
Rooming houses: they rent a room, toilet facilities down the hall, no meals.
Boarding houses: they rent a room, the landlady provides breakfast and dinner, expects to know your business, and enforces a curfew.
Organized residential clubs, generally operated by a charity: YMCAs and YWCAs are here. Tenants have some freedom; meals may or may not be available.
Low-end residential hotels: from a Single Room Occupancy to something more middle-class. Price varies. No meals but hot plates abound as do local, cheap basement restaurants.
Middle-class residential hotels of various types: exactly what they sound like; they cost more and expect a higher standard of behavior BUT they come with meal plans that often make them cheaper than a house
Upper-class residential hotels: more costly and more services.
Palace Hotels: high-end service, plenty of servants, fine dining, etc. for people with money.
There are other options too! Every town that had a factory had some sort of residential hotels. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I suspect that in addition to well-meaning reformers who couldn't stand residents living in ways they disapproved, another change to the market was changes in mortgages. Once you could get a 30-year mortgage with only 20% down, a family didn't have to come up with a 50% down payment AND pay off the balloon mortgage at the end of seven years. That must have changed things substantially.
This is a stunning, very readable book; especially noteworthy since it's a product of an academic press (University of California Press).
The book is VERY expensive on abebooks.com so get your copy via the interlibrary loan.
You'll have a FAR greater understanding of various housing options that were common.
One thing they all have in common: no one is spouting off silliness about 'we're all going to be happy together'. It was expected that the landlady or manager or desk clerk paid attention to the residents' behavior and they threw you out if you didn't meet standards.
Having lived for several years in college in a small, shared house, I can tell you that getting other people to clean up after themselves and not get drunk and pass out in the living room floor is damned hard. They don't want to pay their share of the rent, they run the furnace to 80 degrees so they can prance around in shorts and a t-shirt and empty out the oil tank (true story), they want you do to do everything and if they don't get their way, they pout and skip out on their share of the bills, they won't cook for everyone or if they do, they won't clean up afterwards, and they sure won't get on their knees to scrub the toilets.
I wouldn't do it again. Unless you've got similar cultural values enforced by community standards (i.e., marriage), it doesn't necessarily work well, especially with strangers.
Sweet Tatorman
Mon, 02/14/2022 - 14:02
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Residential Hotels
I know that there are some here that read Johnny Sanphillippo's excellent Blog, Granola Shotgun. He had several recent postings relevant to the subject of this thread which I link below. The first is specific to the topic of residential hotels and the second to alternative housing in general.
https://www.granolashotgun.com/granolashotguncom/6zvqilj1ofphhf73a2r5uqu...
https://www.granolashotgun.com/granolashotguncom/the-lickety-split
Teresa from Hershey
Tue, 02/15/2022 - 15:46
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Johnny Sanphillipo mentioned the Paul Groth book
I read Granola Shotgun faithfully. Johnny's a great, perceptive writer.
He's where I heard about Paul Groth's book although he used the subtitle and not the main title in his essay titled Monopoly Hotels.
lathechuck
Wed, 02/16/2022 - 09:44
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Granola Shotgun is great
My church is considering trying to do something good in the "affordable housing" area, since we've been offered an enormous amount of money by a developer of the land we sit on. Reading Johnny's blog has given me some really valuable perspective. "It's not as simple as you might think!" has become my refrain.
I've also read that the Lutheran Social Services branch in North Dakota literally went bankrupt trying to provide affordable housing to those affected by the oil/gas boom. It turns out that people who can't afford market-rate housing often continue to make bad choices. They don't just need housing; many of them need active "case management", far beyond what a landlord can provide.
Kay Robison
Mon, 02/14/2022 - 16:29
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Boarding houses
I can recall any number of period novels that feature rooming houses or boarding houses. The land ladies of these places always seemed to be retired show girls or something like that. If you have seen the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still" with Michael Rennie and Patricia Neal you will recall the very fine boarding house where Klatu, now dressed in Major Carpenter's civilian suit, takes refuge and get a chance to talk with real people. I always thought that would be a great way for someone with a too large house and a limited income to make a living and if you were a single parent, an inexpensive place for you and your children to live.
Kay Robison
Mon, 02/14/2022 - 16:31
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Boarding houses
Sorry, I managed to post this twice.
pygmycory
Tue, 02/15/2022 - 13:54
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It depends on who you're sharing with
Yeah, I had some interesting experiences with that too. Oddly enough, the shared housing at the university worked really well. A group of friends plus a random person got a unit, and while there were ups and downs, I wouldn't mind doing it again.
At the moment I'm in an odd halfway between roommate and having my own place situation. I get along with my landlady, and it works really well. I've been here over a decade.
But the bio field jobs with random coworkers, some of whom turned out to be unpleasant and one of whom made threats of violence... not so great. And the random roommates in Vancouver, some of whom had issues like hoarding to the point of being kicked out by the landlord, playing drumset at 10pm and generally not knowing how to be a decent roommate, possibly being on drugs not paying rent and getting kicked out by the landlord, and stealing stuff... not great either. Do not want to do again, but I assume I may well have to at some point.
Sharing situations can be anywhere from great to miserable, scary and actively dangerous. The difference is primarily the people you're sharing with. Ideally you want to be able to vet your roommates first, and have a backup plan in case things go south suddenly.
daview
Thu, 02/24/2022 - 13:58
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I looked up the Groth book on Amazon
was $75.
Not gonna happen.
The info you showed was very interesting tho,
never seen it layed out that way. Thanks.
Teresa from Hershey
Fri, 02/25/2022 - 12:46
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The interlibrary loan is your friend.
$75 isn't bad for this small edition book. It's higher at abebooks.com but that may be for hardback editions.
The interlibrary loan is your friend. That's how I got my copy.
Ask your reference librarian how it works at your library. The book is enough of a goldmine of information that I'd pay a few bucks to borrow it from an out-of-state library. Luckily, Hershey's library provides ILL (Inter Library Loan) service for free.
Every page has something I didn't know.
It's absolutely worth your time if you're at all interested in housing issues, downtown living, homelessness, or how people actually lived in the past.
Just the mention that as many as half of all hotel managers were women! Not just boarding house owners, renting their own property either.
The index, bibliography, and footnotes all offer even more avenues to explore.
pygmycory
Fri, 02/25/2022 - 17:23
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I like interlibrary loan, too
I like interlibrary loan, too. I've gotten access to some pretty useful stuff that way.